wait for him or leave him

Posted by mao (760 days ago)

He will be 60 and I'm 41.We worked in the same school for 4 years and then he decided to resign and go back to UK. He has helped with my music practice for over a year. Then one day he told me he loved me the first day since he came to school. He has never been so sure about anything in his life. He will scrifice everything for me. He and his wife (worked in our school too)are both 2nd marriage and have been together for 16 years. He wrote to me every day and asked me to wait for him. He got another teaching job and said he was back to HK only for me. Then less than one month since he came back, his wife came unannonced and decided to join him in HK. In the last 2 months, he has changed his mind several times. Me and her. He didn't want to hurt her but he coundn't live without me. I was terribly in love with him now and was hurt so badly by his indecision. I went to France when his wife came just to forget everything and he text me that he would come back to me. But once I'm back to HK, he is all quiet again. What do I do ?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by Salty (759 days ago)

Time to let go and move on.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by gzStone (759 days ago)

Guys like this say all the right words, they give you hope, they give you just enough love to keep you hanging on. Years will pass and nothing will change. He will still be handing you hope like it is candy in his pocket. Do you mind being a second wife? If you don't, stay with him. If you do, then be firm and do what is right for you.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by kowloon_tong (759 days ago)

"Then one day he told me he loved me the first day since he came to school. He has never been so sure about anything in his life. He will scrifice everything for me."


for women who heard about this more than once in their life time, she probably figure this is full of shxt.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by blissful82 (759 days ago)

The golden rule : NEVER get involved with a married guy, NEVER EVER. Try to put yourself in his wife's position. As a woman we shouldnt do that to other woman. I know you're in love with him, but its time to let him go and move on with life. Come on, there are so many single guys out there. live a little!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by travelinteacher (759 days ago)

I tend to look at the possible combinations

a. He loves you, he loves his wife, he will leave his wife because his love for you is stronger.
b. He loves you, he loves his wife, he will not leave his wife (they took a vow, too much paperwork involved, etc.).
c. He loves you, he doesn't love his wife, he stays with you for a lifetime.
d. He loves you, he doesn't love his wife, he stays with you until another person he loves comes along (is this a pattern for him?).
e. He doesn't actually love you, he loves his wife, he stays with his wife.
f. He doesn't actually love you, he doesn't love his wife, he'll be in Hong Kong until he decides he loves someone else (it goes back to that pattern thing).

Maybe I'm missing some combos. In four of those six combinations, he comes to HK and wants to be with you (at least for awhile). But, of those four combinations, there is only one that sets you up for a lifetime.

I have every confidence that his feelings for you are real - at least he fully believes that they are. The thing I'd fear most for you is a little nagging suspicion HE might have years from now of "Did I do the right thing?"

The fact that he's not telling his wife to stay in the UK is a big sign that there is a certain part of him that still loves her and "wants to see."

Given all of this, my advise would be telling him that you're happy to start seeing him again when he can show you legal papers that he is no longer legally bound to another woman. I think it is under those circumstances that love blossoms best.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mingstar (759 days ago)

There are so many single guys in the world,leave him and you will find live is so wonderful.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by mao (758 days ago)

Thanks for spending so much time for me, travelinteacher. As I don't have much experience in love. I was divorced a few months ago with my husband of 20 years (he was my first love). With this relationship, the decision is not difficult for me as i told him from the very beginning that I didn't want to hurt his wife nor see him lose so much. But in the process, the intensity of love, loss and hurt were all so strong, that I wish I could know what's the message and lesson that I should learn in order to carry on.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mpl (758 days ago)

I really feel for your position mao. It sounds like you were looking forward to a long & happy life with this man. Unfortunately it seems quite clear from your post that he has no idea what he wants. I have no doubt he probably loves you and that he is trying to strategise a way out of his marriage in a way that no-one gets hurt. But Mao I dont see a very happy ending here if you keep waiting for something to happen.

If you're able to, I would be having the "final, frank discussion" with him. I personally live by a motto of actions & words. if the actions dont match the words then the words are just rhetoric. Words can confuse us, excite us, build our hopes and set false expectations. But actions are the only thing worth a damm.

Sit him down, Explain to him just what the chronological sequence of events to date have been (this provides unquestionable clarity & context for your conversation). verbalise all the actions you have taken to move the relationship forward then verbalise his. there will be a significant gap.

Once this has been established you need to let him know, hard as this will be, that you are no longer an option for him whilst he remains married or even residing in the marital home. This guy needs to leave his wife for the right reasons - ie not in love with her. he should not leave his wie for you and you should not make yourself an option for him to do that. If he no longer loves his wife then he should take the appropriate action & follow the process. You right now are actually doing the two of you a disservice. He will never be able to break clean & free (if indeed that is his intention) while you remain an option.

I know this sounds harsh and may even be impossible for you to do. But you came for some advice so hear is mine. You need to leave this situation behind you. You need to grieve for it then move on. if you end up with him in the future then you want to make sure it was for the right reasons and there's no chance of him going back. You need to lave mao and let him sort out his life whilst you move on with yours.

all the best - and I'm sorry for the crappy situation you're in.

Cheers

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by matches (758 days ago)

Why do you want a 60 year old man? You're 41. He will very soon be an old man. I think he's deluded and you too. Things like companionship and compatability matter when we get older surely and for you to go after a 60 y.o. woman's husband? Surely not! Maybe someone will want to steal everything from you when you're 60 too?

He thinks he's getting his youth back and has a mission (read: distraction) to help you with your business... you think you're going to get security and happiness in this.. deluded! Sorry to be harsh. You're throwing away your own life as I see it for.. security.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by the goddess kali (758 days ago)

don't waste your time. move on. really men at 61 do have the most awful cheek.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by voiceofreason (758 days ago)

agree with t.g.k. - that won't be the first 60-something man i've heard of who has gone and had a second/late-life crisis. a 61 year old acquaintance just took up with a 19 year old from his office! i think it's a combination of that crisis plus no longer giving a fig what other people think.

mao - WAKE UP! he's been lying to you from day one - or rather, he's been telling you everything you want to hear in order to string you along. stop wasting time and energy imagining what he is really and truly feeling - the bottom line is that he is married, he is not leaving his wife, and he is most certainly not leaving her for you.

Actions, not words, my dear.

(I am based in Manila)

Posted by mpl (758 days ago)

Think you guys are being a bit harsh. Just because he's 60 doesn't mean his flipped his lid and having a crisis.

It's too simplistic to simply say "move on" or get over it. She's in love with him and age should really not come into it. I know, I know - that's not reality you'll say. But i say I have my reality - others have their own.

Mao - agree you should leave but follow the right process. It would be very easy for you to sit there and beat yourself up for feeling foolish. Try to resist this - sometimes love can blind you completely so i get how easy it is to cling to hope. You're no fool, but the time has come to take steps to move forward.

Keep us up to date.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kristatu;ip (758 days ago)

Dear Mao :)
You should Leave him as he's very selfish and only LOVES HIMSELF. If he has some good in him, he should spend the rest of his life with his wife.
Take care and all the best :)

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by travelinteacher (758 days ago)

I think the worst thing about a divorce is the underlying question, "Why didn't he/she want me?" I suspect it has been a few years since you've really felt loved and appreciated. Someone came along that looked you in the eyes and made you feel beautiful (both inside and out). I can't judge that.

Also, given those situations, I've never been able to sit down and have a logical conversation with the person who makes me so emotive. Some may try and box it into the term "rebound" but, in my experience, the relationship after the divorce brings back all the hopes and dreams that were relinquished midway through the broken marriage. Hence, having those dreams shattered a second time is equally painful.

One of my friends vowed after her divorce to not date for one full year. She said that was the best thing she ever did - it gave her perspective. That worked for me as well. It's incredibly hard at first but I found it worth it in the end.

I think all you need to say to him is that you need more time to find out who you are as a single and you have vowed not to date for x period of time. You wish him the best. Full stop.

Then go somewhere else and have a good shot of whiskey.

Good luck, girlfriend!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (758 days ago)

thanks every one for all your concern and contributions. Brought up the way as mine, I had always found it extremely embarassing and hard to share feelings with anyone. But now, I find it very liberating to have so many of you share the thoughts, lesson of my innermorst feelings with me. I have decided that 1: my love for him is so strong that it has to go beyond all limitations. I have to give him up and let him stay with his wife. But when he needs me as he has been doing all this time till now, I'll give him emotional support as a friend. I simply can't shut him out. The way i was brought up, I have to give love 200% when I fall in love (i have had many experiences yet)Because it just hurt myself more if I refuse him. Then at the same time, I'll have to live my own life. I have always been very strong, indepedent and positive That's why he was attracted to my in the 1st place. Then he said our love is one sided, as he needs me desperately and I don't need him as much. Love makes me weak and vulnerable. When that happens, he pushes me away and let me down. I'll carry on with my life being strong, warm and positive as before. No one, not even love can take those away. Let love be a small part of my life again as always.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kuroTenshi (758 days ago)

Best of luck mao and I do hope the future brings you the love your heart deserves whether with this gentleman or another... be strong, beautiful, smile and enjoy. Apologies for not offering any constructive advice on your actual situation but do enjoy your tomorrows as who knows what they may indeed bring...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by plastic buddha (757 days ago)

Sounds like he is insecure and has somehow harrangued you into being dominated.

I say do what you gotto do to break out of the rut you are in.

Dont hold back on meeting new people.

Be open to love and new beginnings.

Leave the fuddy duddy to the woman he promised to love and cherish till death do they part...his wife!

You deserve a whole lot better...or at least a guy you wont have to help with his Zimmer in 10 years!

Good Luck.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by the goddess kali (757 days ago)

When you feel that you 'love' a person because he 'neeeeeds' me it's a sure sign of an unhealthy relationship. love is NOT about being needy or needed.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by mpl (757 days ago)

Mao - your plan and outlook sound sensible. Wish you all the very best.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (757 days ago)

He did say that he would never be secure with me as I'm..... He also said that I am strong and he is weak (his wife said that too when we once had a meeting together) But it's just that when you are in love, you can't help from doing whatever love demands, like giving, supporting, or being selfless.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bits&pieces (757 days ago)

mao, It appears that you know what the right thing to do is. I mean that as in what is the right thing FOR YOU.

Too often in life, logic and love seem to be at odds with each other. Logic being dictated by the brain and love by the heart. Ideally, we can find a way to balance these two parts of ourselves, but all too often one takes precedent over the other to the detriment of the whole.

It is my sincere hope that you CAN find a way to retain the friendship that bonded you with man initially. It may be a very difficult undertaking. I think that although you may eventually be able to be friends, it probably won’t be right now or in the near future. I think you need to distance yourself from this man and the romantic relationship for a while.

Unfortunately, when a person becomes involved with another who is in a committed relationship, whether that means married or long term alliance, it is almost always guaranteed that someone WILL be hurt. When this man says to you "I don't want to hurt my wife, perhaps the appropriate response from you should be "Fine, I respect your desire not to cause hurt to anyone, but do you understand that in this situation that is just not possible? Someone will be hurt, you, me, your wife or all of us. I have decided that I can no longer be in a relationship that causes me such pain. As your friend, I would like for you to be happy and so I need to give you the time and space to sort out what direction you would like your life to take. If you decide to leave your wife, do not do this for me but do it because the relationship is broken beyond repair and you feel that both you and your wife will be happier apart. If you decide to stay with your wife then also decide to fix what need to be fixed so that you can be happy and at peace in that relationship. Once you have decided and taken the necessary steps go forward in your life if you still wish me to be a part of your life, either as a lover if you part from your wife or as a friend if you don’t, then contact me and we can talk about whether or not a relationship between the two of us is possible.”

There are some things that you have said in your post that set off the alarm bells for me. The primary one is that he told you his wife came to Hong Kong unexpectedly and unannounced. She is his wife for the love of god, why on earth would her coming to HK be unexpected. It was not as though he had told her about you and they had separated. I just cannot help but think that he was fully aware of her plans to join him. And the back and forth business indicates to me either 1. He is seriously confused about what he wants in which case please refer to the paragraph above. Or 2. He has no intention on ever leaving his wife and just wants you as a “side dish”.

Sorry that this is such a long post. I hope it helps even if only a little. I wish you happiness.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by plastic buddha (757 days ago)

(sorry i posted on the wrong thread)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (756 days ago)

bits&pieces, thanks, I like your post a lot and will study more closely, esp about love, logic and the decision. Here're a bit more explanation about how she came unannounce. When he came back to HK in Sept, I have only just agreed to try with him and initially he was very keen to move in to my place(I'm single mum with a 8 yr old son). About 20 days later, on a Thurs, I agreed that he could move in. But Fri evening, 5 min before I went to meet him as we planned, she picked up the phone. Over the weekend, he texted me saying no worries and he's soring out his life for good with me. Mon morning, he rang to see me after work. But I refused calling him coward for not daring to make a phone call or any acknowledgement of me before his wife. There were many complicated issues here: him genuinely and desperately loves me and tried in a way; her a sense of power and control(in his letter he always mentions about saving her face by keeping her in UK, she said to me directly that it's it's an asian fantacy for her husband; he said that their relationsip was empty for a long time. she always wanted to own and control him and he always resisted. While they were together for 16 years, they once got married before they came to HK. On my part, it has been a painful process of dignity, scorn, sympathy, love, hurt and compassion. (sorry, am I shamelessly trying to glorify my own feelings) any way, do all love goes through the same ups and down. In my previouse text, a typing mistake is that I'm not experienced.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (756 days ago)

Sorry, just me again when I re-read your post again. "the appropriate response from me should be" ...that's exactly what I said when a last term he told his wife about us and wanted to a separtion. She insisted talking to me so we 3 had a meeting. That's what I said but concluded that I respected his decision if he chose me. In the end he felt hurt thinking my love for him was not as strong as he thought. She threathened to tell the whole school (as we all worked in the same school)then said I had to fight for what I want. Acturally she came to visit my school just today (even though she doese work here and he no longer workes here)telling everyone that she's in HK and 'strangely still with her husband'. After that meeting, i refused to communicate with him for 2 weeks while he wrote me notes and letters begging me to have some communication so that he could keep up with each day. Sorry, better stop, it's getting distastefully melodramatic. I should keep cool.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mpl (756 days ago)

B&P - belatedly ... great post !

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (755 days ago)

What does it mean. His wife came to HK 2 weeks ago while I fled to Paris to be with my sister. The trip's purpose is to forget everything. He texted the next day saying he would come back to me and I'm everything for him. After I came back to HK, he text and emailed me saying he needed me asked to see me. The meeting was just a friendly catch up as I avoided the topic. I told me previously that I haven't changed my love for him and wished him to make decisions out of his own best interest. But his wife came to my school'helping friend', 2 days already this week. I found that extremely harassing. There's been tremendously pressure. He has kept quiet since our last meeting. What shall i do now

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by csun008 (755 days ago)

Mao, I read your story with great intersts. Life is strange but interesting, isn't it?

I am much less experienced than you in this domain but in my inexperienced eyes, you should move on with your life. At least forget all about him for some time. You may be with him again one day but for the moment, you deserve a break!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mpl (754 days ago)

Mao - what should you do now? Follow your plan you posted a few posts ago. Disengage yourself from this. You will slowly be driven insane if you stay and you will end up resenting him, maybe even hating him. You can see where this is heading. Do you really want to be on the train when it crashes? You deserve more. You deserve n awful lot more. But right now you're not giving yourself any chance to maybe one day find that.

You guys tried. Just wanting something to change doesn't make it happen Mao. Of course you have the option of torturing yourself waiting & hoping for change ....but it's not a very appealing one.

Sorry to be the voice of doom. I really do wish you all the best.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (754 days ago)

thank you, mpl. Every waking moment, I have been thinking about it. Take a break and disengage myself.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (750 days ago)

Last Sat,there was a colleaques birthday party. I went with my son and saw him with his wife there. (he no longer teach in my school, she's not working)I was totally shattered, hiding in the swimming pool choking. As soon as people start to go, I did the same with my son in tears. I felt there were making a public parade saying that they're back together again(that's part of her greeting to people in school) and I felt humiliated.

Until Sunday lunch I had been in tears and prayed in the local temple for buring it all. Then he rang to say they just split up and would come to me and there was no return. I said just come, ours is always open and even for your recovering. My son said of cause he couldn't live on the street. I had a australian family visitors that afternoon. So we went to the country together for food, wine, wandering around. My son tried very hard to cheer him up. In the evening, when I walked out my visitors to KCR and back, he said he ang her and had to go back. I begged him to stay for a while to talk, he just couldn't and left.

I was in total darkness for the next day afternoon, sending him a long letter. In his response, he explained that he was suddenly shattered by his mem of leaving his first marriage with 2 kids, now his wife. With me, in 10 years time, I'll still be young...

They're now recoverviing. His wife gave him a momantum: no more mess around. Otherwise the end. He was testing his feelings for me now.

He never admitted it. But I heard that his wife said if that's the end, she would take him to the cleaners. What's the implications ?Now thinking back, they had a house in UK which he wanted to sell but couldn’t for all sorts of reasons and now she won’t sell.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kristatu;ip (750 days ago)

Dearest Mao,
You are very much hurt deep within. However, you must take courage, be strong and move on with your own life. His life is in a total mess. he's playing yoyo with your feelings. Let him and his wife (they are family) to sort out their mess. You're still an outsider no matter how much you love him. He's a married man, so hands off.
Good Luck Mao and take care.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by mpl (749 days ago)

Mao - I have changed my opinion of this guy completely. At first I was prepared to go a bit easy on him and not knock him around too much in my posts to you. I stayed away from making any kind of judgement call about him or categorising him in any way. But enough is enough.

This guy is a child ...pure & simple. He is wreaking havoc through not only your life, but your sons & his own wife's. Actually am starting to wonder whether his wife is really just a lovely woman, devastated by her husbands constant philandering. This child of a man is seriously not worth one more single tear.

No one who really loves someone would put them on a swinging pendulum time after time. He would have to have known how much it would have hurt you when he paraded his wife around on the Saturday - so to make up for it he lies and says he has left her so he can see you on the sunday. After he sees you - all good - time to go back to wifey ...makes up another lie about "she'll take me to the cleaners", waffles on about how "lost" he is, then it's back home where he can enjoy having his cake and eating it to.

Mao - this guy is dangling you. He will never ever leave his wife mate. but she may leave him !!! You are being fed line after line. You are being manipulated in the most callous & cruel way possible.

Mao - I know this will be hard. But you have to tell this bastard to never darken your doorstep again. I know this sounds harsh, but Mao you cannot keep getting bounced around by this kretin anymore. It's unfortunate you fell in love with him because there is a side to his charcter that I, and I suspect others, are beginning to see that maybe you are unable to. You are being strung along Mao. he has no plan. He will just "fire-fight" whenever you have an issue. But ultimately ....he is married and he has zero intention of changing that. Why would he - you are always there for him when he needs you at the moment. Why would he give up that? He has the best of both worlds.

Time to put an end to this Mao. You can do this.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bits&pieces (749 days ago)

Mao-Woman you know what you need to do! You simply cannot allow this fool to keep playing with your feelings. Like mpl, I was trying to give the guy a break and not be too judgemental. Well, after your last post I am ready to be judge, jury and executioner on his sorry butt.

He has no intention of leaving his wife and more than likely never did. You must know deep in your heart that this is true. He knows exactly what to say to you to keep you hanging on to the hope of a future with him. You need to let go of the hope of any future with him, either as lovers or as friends. He is simply not worth your attention and certainly does not deserve your friendhip. Go back and re-read your posts and ask yourself if he behavior truly reflects a loving heart.

Mao-kick this sorry excuse for a man to the curb.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by mao (748 days ago)

Sorry, every one, purely for self healing reasons and keep my sanity. Copied the the following words from his last emails after sunday incident:
1.it was terribly terribly cruel and i feel utterly ashamed of what i did. Please find it in your huge heart and generosity to forgive me for what i did to you on Sunday.
2.But you are like a drug to me. I can't kick the habit.
3.try to keep calm. there is a greater scheme of things somewhere that perhaps we can't see at the moment. Try to stay positive.I know you don't want words any more but actions.

Just one question here: literally, what does it mean by 'greater scheme of things....'

Thanks

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Tiger01 (747 days ago)

Move on.
41 is young.
Don't be no. 2 or 1.5 or whatever.

Quote from MPL above:

"But you have to tell this bastard to never darken your doorstep again. I know this sounds harsh, but Mao you cannot keep getting bounced around by this kretin anymore. It's unfortunate you fell in love with him because there is a side to his charcter that I, and I suspect others, are beginning to see that maybe you are unable to. You are being strung along Mao. he has no plan. He will just "fire-fight" whenever you have an issue. But ultimately ....he is married and he has zero intention of changing that."

read it, believe it, get a haircut and some new shoes and walk steadily but surely in a direction away from him!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by the goddess kali (747 days ago)

He's total piece of sh!te - he's just playig a little power game with you to convince himself that at 60 he's not a doddering grandpa but some kind of stud who's still got the powah to make a woman 20yrs younger than him swoon. oh pleeeeassse do get over it and move on.

And do stop kidding yourself that this is LUUURRRV and noble and all that....

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by kristatu;ip (746 days ago)

Dearest Mao :-)
Please do listen and follow everyone's concern advise for you. Take control of your life and for the sake of your son and take the lead to leave him. Remember, you're a TEACHER and a working MOTHER. Don't let him destroy your life and reputation. You're working in a School and no parents of your students want to have a Teacher who takes another woman's hushand and disrupt another's family's life, to be teaching teaching their children. Doesn't look good at all. You have a good heart to want to help him but he's destroying your life. PLEASE GET YOURSELF OUT OF THIS SITUATION!

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by Royster Doyster (744 days ago)

Dear Mao,
I am a good for nothing cheating man. However, I have daughters so I do have a slight female perspective on life. If one of my daughters were in the same position as you and knowing what I do about men, my advice to her would be to get rid of this guy as soon as possible. He probably isn't that special and he is much older which will lead to problems. He may offer something that other men in your life may not have done so far (sensitivity, a different outlook etc) but on the whole, this is usually complete nonesense and an excuse for getting women into bed. He has to offer something because he can't compete in the market with younger guys. Seems like he has perfected his psychological techniques and you have fallen for them. These ageing hippies, eh? Always the worst.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by travelinteacher (744 days ago)

Pretend he is like a drug. Quit cold turkey. It will hurt and you'll vomit and lose a lot of weight, but it won't kill you.

My advice for cutting off all contact is to block emails and change/block phone numbers. This may sound harsh - especially since he is not dangerous. However, my logic is as follows...

If you block his email address(es), you won't open your email wondering whether or not he is contacting you. Assume he is not.

If you change your number or block his from your phone, you won't be constantly checking to see if he left you a message. It isn't possible.

Can you take yourself on vacation? Leave your phone at home. Book a hotel room in a place you know no one. Cry and cry and cry until you get it all out of you. Write a good-bye letter to him (that you WON'T send - it's just for your own closure). When you return to HK, look up a good counselor and vow that you will only think of him for a certain period of time each day.

The withdrawls feel like they will go on forever, but they eventually go away.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (739 days ago)

I haven't responded his emails and his last text which says that he just realized that he couldn't do this thing called life without me. I'm starting to pull myself through. Last night, I text him asking him if he'd be in my school fair today he didn't respond and showed up today with his wife. He played in the band. I just felt being cruxified again. I could be more prepared if he told me he'd be coming. But why he avoided telling me.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bits&pieces (739 days ago)

Sweetie, because basically this man is a coward! At this point, I would like to see you get good and angry with the way he has been treating you and using your feelings for him as a way of keeping you on the line. He seems to be a master of saying what you want to hear. And I am quite sure that he is quite as masterful at saying those things that his wife wants to hear.

Cut him lose now and with any luck his wife will now tell him to kiss her a.. also, No more than he deserves......noone at the end of of the day.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by kristatu;ip (738 days ago)

Hi Mao, it's good to from you again. Please take our advise. We're more concern for you than him. Stop asking WHY. Move on with your life. Take Care you deserved to be HAPPY :-)

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by mpl (738 days ago)

It would be a curious (and perhaps just) thing if Mao & the wife happened to come across each other in a coffee shop one day and settled in for a long chat. I suspect there are two women being manipulated by this sorry excuse for a man. I tend to side with Bits&Pieces on this one. You have every right to be angry Mao yet you still seem intent on feeling like a victim. You seem smarter than that. Maybe its time the victim took some control of her life, and just maybe helped out another suffering woman as well? Food for thought.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (738 days ago)

I realised that he's useless and hope you don't mind about me sharing my thoughts about his wife as well. At our first date, i cried when i asked him did his wife know about he has feelings for me and he said yes. Then his wife asked to see me said things it's her husband's purly asian fantasy, and have you ever thought about finding your chinese son an english husband....That just changed my opinion. She's a total racical bigot.The tone and attitude she use to him was total ignelegence and disrespect, treating him like a child. "He doesn't know what he wants. He is too weak..' When she came back to HK unannounced, some of my colleagues that she talked to were shocked that she saw no wrong in her husband. she blamed everything to me. Her comment'To take him to the clearners' doesn't come from him, but from what she said to the colleques. Now she's not working and he's left the school, she still takes every chance to come in to school. He's useless, she's a control freak. I'm being used.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (737 days ago)

chinese son with an english father was what she said.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mpl (737 days ago)

You have all the reasons you'll ever have to put this trash out Mao. Time to move on. Time to get a bit angry like B&P said and use it to help you move past him. He is a lowlife coward. Thibnk it through logically - would you ever want the man you end up with to have the qualities this man is now displaying?

You've probably been starved for love for a long time (I only say that because of what you have been prepared to accept) so it's quite understandable that you "clung to the dream" so to speak. He made you feel special, loved (in a bizarre way), needed and important in his life. Why? Because his own marriage is miserable and he has neither the courage nor the inclination to stand up & end it. So he found you - someone who thinks the world of him (unlike his wife obviously if what you're saying is true) and reminds him what it feels like to be a man, if only for a few moments. Mao - everything he does when it comes to you is a self serving fulfillment of the inadequacies in his own life.

I think I can safely speak on behalf of everyone who has given you advice here when I say we wanna see a post here next week that says you met him, dumped him, am hurting a lot but not looking back.

Do it Mao. There is more to life than this.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Jungle_duet (737 days ago)

mao,

You know he is up to marriage nnumber 2 already, even if you did become number 3 would it stop there?

He is a dirt-bag who rightly deserves to be the one who is hurting, he just wants what he sees and cannot control himself.

"Asian fantasy" what a load of rubbish!
She is a twit as well- they deserve each other and you deserve proper happiness.

Look, you are recently divorced recently, emmotionally tender, have got to know him slowly through work and got comfortable with him and he has slipped in under the radar and is taking advantage of you when yo ar most vulnerable - he knos exactly what he is doing no doubt whatsoever. It is easier to play wit you and youre feelings than to del with perhaps the ups and downs of his probably pretty boring own life.

This is hard, but have tou considered changing to another school?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (737 days ago)

I will if there's an opportunity. But i don't care anymore. I feel like being stampted on by their public parade in the school..their obvious victorous return back to their expat world, by staff's attitudes. I have felt ostrached several times publicly. I'm feeling like an ant,publicly, socially and professionally. So there's no where else to go but up,up,and up. I decided today going back to orchestra and work extremely hard for a public performance in 8 days time. I'm back to volleyball team for match when his wife comes to school again. I'm working on one goal: nothing will hurt me anymore.
Thank you everyone ! When you share your thoughts, it's a gesture of giving me a simple message through your own tears, joy, love, hate and heartbreaks. Part of reasons that I couldn't let go this doomed relationship was I still didn't get the lesson or message. but now I think, I 'm at least getting one: by reachining out my arms, I'll embrace in more, more than what I expect at first.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by csun008 (737 days ago)

Hi there Mao.

Nice to read that you are strong again. Do move on with your life. And, never date a married man again. I am sure lots of people have told you this but lots of us have learned this lesson in a hard way. Leave them alone. Otherwise, just imagine we are in their wives' shoes.

Best wishes.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bits&pieces (734 days ago)

Mao, little bit late on this reply. I am pleased that you seem stronger in the last couple of days. I am offering the following opinions for those days when you are not feeling quite so strong.

I would like you to consider this issue from a different perspective as I sense that you still have tendency to have a wee bit too much sympathy for this man.

For a bit please consider the following:

The wife states that you are only an Asian fantasy and puts the entire responsibility for the affair at your feet. On the face of it, it does sound like a totally racist remark but if you give it a little tweak, then this sounds like someone who is desperately trying to hold on to their relationship. After all, if it is just a fantasy then it doesn't really have any thing to do with the reality of their relationship. It is far easier to lay the blame at the feet of the other person than to admit to themselves that the one that they have loved, honored and cherished has let them down.

As for the comment that she will "take him to the cleaners". This sounds to me as though it is a comment from a woman who is thoroughly pissed off about their loved ones behaviors. It is a comment from a woman has been betrayed and has had enough. Will she actually follow through on this threat, maybe? Is it the right thing to do, maybe not? Is it understandable, absolutely! It is human nature to want to strike out and hurt the one who has caused us pain. Since she may feel that she is powerless to hurt him emotionally as he has hurt her she then threatens the one area he is vulnerable .... the wallet.

As for her comments that he does not know what he wants...it seems pretty clear to me that he in fact has no clue.

Now to address the issue of the disrespect...this begs the question...what came first the chicken or the egg?
Did disrespect lead him to seek solace in the arms of another woman or did the fact that he was unfaithful cause her to disrespect him??
In my opinion this is not a man who deserves anyone’s respect.

I am not trying to defend the wife's actions just to offer you some possible causes in case you find yourself softening towards this man because he is married to a witch. Remember, he picked the witch and maybe just maybe he is the reason she is a witch.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by mpl (734 days ago)

That is a great thread B&P. Well said.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by the goddess kali (734 days ago)

Yes - you should get your head out of the sand.

A husband that claims that the wife landed unannounced - well actually being the wife -she has all the right do so.

What goes on between a husband and a wife - no one knows- i bet he's lying to her as he is to you.

He's such a worthless piece of sh!te. He's preying on your willingness to be codependant - you obviously like being 'needed'.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by mao (734 days ago)

unannounced was a shocking fact as I was 5 mins from his flat as we were suppose to meet. But thanks, every one! I'm stronger, picking up bits and pieces in school which I find extremely hard at the moment. She still comes to school and I feel rejected and orstrached by the staff. He still writes to me and in the last one he was asking if there's a hope of reconcilation and consider him again. Then he said he treated me badly and maybe we've reached the end of the path. 'Are there other path to find to walk together.' I still think of him day and night and last few weeks the hurt was just so excruciating that I knew it had to end. Shall I respond and not ?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by the goddess kali (734 days ago)

DON'T

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by mpl (734 days ago)

Absolutely not. Walk away with your self respect and your pain. The pain will fade and then you'll be left with your self respect.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bits&pieces (733 days ago)

No No No No! and again NO! As mpl said, keep your self respect. Now, print this entire thread and when ever you are tempted to contact him, reread it from top to bottom. Pay particular attention to your own postings regarding his ongoing treatment of you and keep telling your self "I deserve better". Keep telling yourself this and soon you will truly begin to believe it.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by ImSoBored (728 days ago)

I find it fascinating that so many women can be so supportive of a woman who knowingly begins a relationship with a married man. I thought the rules where, do not begin anything until he is divorced.

Don't get me wrong, I think Mao sounds like a sweetheart, but, if it was your husband, and your marriage on the line, if it was a relationship that you built up from scratch (as being the second marriage perhaps the first took him to the cleaners and the second sacrificed a lot in the begining), would you still be so sweet and understanding to the other woman?

(I am based in Bangkok)

Posted by mpl (728 days ago)

Get what you're saying IMSB but there is a context here that adds a shade of grey to the matter. You're right though - the responses could have easily have been "well he was married - serves yourself right", but I guess the support has come from people acknowledging that sometimes things aren't as black & white.

Mao was obviously in a vulnerable state and she wasn't the pursuer - he pursued her, and if you re-read her original post it sounds like it was a reasonably vigorous pursuit. Telling someone you've always loved them, that they will scarifice everything, wait for me etc, and god knows what other promises about separating from wife, is what I would define as a vigorous pursuit. Some people are susceptible to that because of varying reasons. To judge them for being susceptible is to do so without understanding why they were in the first place. Not sure that's entirely fair.

She's no hussy who went and tracked down a married man and destroyed his marriage. Sure, she's not totally blameless for her predicament, but there is an element of empathy & understanding that certainly I have been prepared to offer.

But I find your point to be a valid one.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by alexyang (718 days ago)

wrong place meet the wrong people at the wrong time.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by AngelinaShum (716 days ago)

Hello Mao,..You love him so much right? Is your love strong enough to "fogive" him for everything, including to except him having a marraige? also, not feel regret unless you may be blamed of destroying other's family?

If you do, then go on because I think you'll feel more pain to leave him then keep it. However, better have clear mind about you position, a lover, not a wife; so better not to complain whenever he has to go home in New year...Do enjoy the time he spends with you, but not keep asking him to divorce (this is not a "lover" should do), everything has a role and not only in your job. If you can't do this,..then break him up.

It's already happened, falling in love with a man who finds you are the one after getting married (like what alexyang said, wrong matching). Then you have to think twice where you stand, and be happy and no regret of what you have done.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by car_lover (716 days ago)

Think of it this way, if ur married, wld u wanna share ur husband or even let him have a mistress? Anyways, most guys would say they love u even tho they are married..i think he is selfish and only thinks for himself and neither u or his wife, so dump him ASAP and get on with ur life! Lots of single guys out there, u dun need him to be happy.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (672 days ago)

Can someone tell me how and where I can meet new guys who are single. I've been out with some divorcees twice, and there're mostly women. But we really had great chats.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (672 days ago)

Can someone tell me how and where I can meet new guys who are single. I've been out with some divorcees twice, and there're mostly women. But we really had great chats.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (Part Deux) (671 days ago)

How long have you been single? I mean, are you still seeing this plank on and off? Maybe it could do you some good to reevaluate yourself by taking some time off from looking to constantly be with someone...

Just a thought.

Sounds like you have low self esteem and this old fart has seriously trampled what little sense of dignity or self worth you may have had...

Go single, for crying out loud. Make friends and learn to love and appreciate yourself a bit more.

Sign up for therapy with the guys over at St.Johns. Nothing works better than paying someone to hear you whinge about anything and everything. There is no guilt involved.

Anything is better than simply looking for someone else so you dont have to date the loser married guy you've been dating! And take my word for it, he IS a loser.

Its one thing when someone treats you like crap and manipulates you with lies...its another thing when you hear it time and time again from others to dump him but you continue to subject yourself to the lies and manipulation.

As I say, either poo or get off the pot, dont just sit there doing nothing, constipated in your fear of loneliness.

Try the single life out for size...its pretty hard for someone to love you right if you dont love yourself. Sounds like a pathetic cliche but its true.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (Part Deux) (671 days ago)

Oh and if you have already told him to never darken your doorstep....good on you! You did the right thing!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wolfbaby (671 days ago)

I do think you are wasting your time and hurting yourself for waiting this man...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (671 days ago)

I'm now ready to go out and meet single guys, not necessarily for a date, I simply need to socialize and make friends. How long have I been single ?Very long time. I married my first boyfriend at young age, then we got divorced after 19 years together. I had been single in the last 10 years as the marriage was already empty.
Previously, I didn't have much social life apart from with colleques. That's why got me into trouble with the affair. At least, now, I've experienced everything that love has to offer and now, I've learned my lesson and I don't have not a bit of regrets. I'm ready to have a new start. Thank you, Justine, and I felt like crying that I'm a winner !
Now I want to go out and meet people, but don't know where and how

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by car_lover (671 days ago)

Try joining those gatherings which is organize for expats and locals to meet up. Go to gathering section.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (608 days ago)

Never thought I'd come back to this thread again. Life goes on, so is our story, another chapter. A few months ago, at night, he knocked on my door and apologized for taking so long to make up his mind. His wife deleted my number off his phone so he just turned up. Then they concelled his 6oth birth day party and informed all their family and friends about their break up. They went back to UK together and back to HK. He stayed in my place for 2 weeks. She rang my home and begged him to go back. He was puzzled and in the end decided that he didn't have the confidence to be with me. He is not sure about his job after this summer. He couldn't accept the fact of depending on me financially. My son is only 8 and he is afraid of all the responsiblilites. His own children want him to go back to UK but worried that we can't go with him as my is very close to my ex in HK. He has never lived overseas, 5 years in HK is his only experience and he's afraid of losing his and his wife's people in UK. Many, many practical issues and the sense of guilt for his wife. He walked out on me again to his wife. The next day, he moved out on his own. They started counselling and the deal is that he has to give her 100% to go back or he'd lose everything. He lied about still seeing me.He told me he had to give it a try to save his marriage. In my opinion, he's just not willing to give up his past. He worked bloody hard to get what they own, helping her to raise her own 3 children, losing the custody of his own 2 children. Then he had to let it go as she said that she would take him to the cleaners. His own 2 children had never developed any intimacy with her after 16 years.
On my side, I was hurt deeply, treated very cruelly and resented strongly as I knew I lived in the shadow of his marriage. But each time, when I see him, he's already like a walking skeleton and my heart just melts. I asked him what he wanted he cried that once stage he sought it's happiness, then he realized that it's not an option for him. In me, he thought that's all he wanted in his past, his present and his future. Each time, when we part, he felt a part of him is dying.
Life is a journey and so is finding love. We all pay, lose, get lost, restart in our own way. Be true to your love, there is no rule. A few colleagues in the school took me out lately and asked me not to isolate myself and told me they cared for me and wanted me to give up on him. I have kept everything to myself. His wife has knitted a mass and strong network. On one hand, they condemn him and call him a wonmanizer and selfish bastard, on the other hand, they all want him back to his marriage. That's his world. My ending words to him is that we go on our own ways. But one day, he's alone again, I'll always look after him.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by LMOPQ (607 days ago)

...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Tidings 2 (607 days ago)

Isn't it amazing how dramatic it can be? I swear relationships are just so trying for most part.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by goldenleaves (607 days ago)

All of the relationships described in your thread are definitely not healthy (especially the one you have with this man). You are the escape clause. Nothing else, for a man who just is a crisis maker. You are a crisis feeder. You sent him back to his wife, but not without sowing the seed which you hope will eventually destroy that effort of reconciliation. You told him you would wait. You are not being noble here, I am afraid. You are being manipulative. The man sounds like an emotional wreck. Let him go and try to gather some sort of semblance of a normal life from his family and friends.

I do feel sympathy for you, but you have to look at the facts. You are young enough to start again, and should. Most of us have felt great love for someone whom we have had to leave behind, for whatever reason. Your statement that you have been bought up to love someone this strongly and that this dependency is a familial dysfunction is revealing. I think it is. As such, it is a pattern of dependent obsession. You may be financially independent and strong, but you seem very emotionally controlling.

Lucky for you, the situation has actually ended well, and the way it ought to have. He's gone back to his culture and family and has a chance of reforming himself amid a whole group of people who do care for him, but who are shaking their heads at his idiocy. You have the chance to help him get this right, let him know that you have found someone else. You want him to make a 200% effort with his wife. It will be hard but it is necessary.

And you, get yourself to the gym, workout, and try to meet your needs elsewhere. Immerse yourself in work, and build or develop your own network of healthy friendships, and learn to recognise a dysfunctional relationship when you see it, and don't treat it as an opportunity to move in on or give in to a vulnerable person.

I wish you all the best. Make a new start. Learn from this.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (607 days ago)

I don't live my life pretending to be a love guru. God gives each of us a unique life. We are all in this life searching our own ways to its meaning. We share our own human stories here. Please, it's not necessary to judge here. When he stayed with us, I didn't send him back to his wife. Every one in my world, my son, my helper, my ex, my friend tried our very best to accomodate his needs and loved him. Every morning, we normally left home together and I dropped him to his work. But that Monday morning, he said he wasn't feeling well for work. But when I got back home after work, he already moved all his stuff back to his wife's place and was waiting to tell me his decision. Then 3 days later, he texted me asking for forgiveness. I was not being manipulating. Right from the beginning, I said I love him so much that I have to let him go and choose his own best way.But I have not been prepared that he's coming back all the time. In his own words, physcially, he walked out on me 7 times and back again. I know you can give me all kinds of names for taking him back in. Today in church, I heard that Jesus's neighbour sinned 7 times a day and back to Jesus and he forgave him. I haven't been trying to be noble here. It brought great pain in me and had lots of lost days because of his drama. As for my personal life, I'm always lived to the full. I do triathalon, I hike, I travel, I'm still heavly involved in music. It's only falling in love has made me weak and dependant for a while. But as I'm learning to cope and becoming stronger, I just can't close my door to people, especially, someone who I know is weak and pussled.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Tidings 2 (607 days ago)

Not a good example for your son Better just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start a new journey because this is just too OTT to continue, right?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by goldenleaves (607 days ago)

I've no doubt you tried your best with this man. The trouble is, he is very troubled, and is, and probably always has been, in crisis. Some people are like this. It's not your fault, and you can't save him. You can forgive him, but that doesn't mean you have to have him back in your life again. Forgiveness doesn't require allowing someone to do the same thing. The man asks for forgiveness, but doesn't and hasn't repented. He is unstable.

It's now just ridiculous as Tidings2 also sees. You've lost time, energy, money and self-respect over his erratic behaviour. Do ask yourself is it sensible for you to continue to hang onto hope here.

What will you get for all your efforts? Nothing, except a very troubled man, and ultimately, he knows you cannot solve his inner problems for him, despite how understanding and kind, forgiving and loving you are (I'm sure you are all of these things to your own detriment).

This can serve you - or him - no good. He ought not to have dragged you into this chaos, but you must now understand how you were vulnerable, and find a way to make sure it doesn't happen to you again. This man was never really available to you. He is running away from himself, but finds himself wherever he goes. You must protect yourself and your son. He seems like he needs psychological help, not so much your love. At 60, this behaviour is absurd.

Do look after yourself and your son.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (607 days ago)

I few times he ruined my weekend because he and his wife had arguments. I refused to see him and switched off my phone. He texted me saying I'm the one who determined the last 380 days of his life. Because of me he is in HK and on his own. He can't make sense of his life. That's why I've always been there. After hearing you guys, I realized that I was right when I told him last time that I could be his friend giving him emotional support but I had to move on and make the best of my life. You're right that I can't solve his problem. I was once his inspiration and helped him finish his collection of short stories. He used to be full of hope for our future in our liturary and music ventures. But back to reality, he has to surrender. But thank you guys, life is a celebration. I'll be myself again. I'll be good and happy for meself and my son. I'd like to share what he has learned from this whole episode next time. We two are going to bali tomorrow morning. Happy Easter holiday ! Thanks for listening to our story and sharing your thoughts.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by goldenleaves (606 days ago)

That's great Mao. As I said earlier, it's all - luckily - worked out for the best. He has a family now to take care of him and to guide him towards what he must do to fulfill his responsibilities and to achieve mental health (sounds like histrionic disorder to me). You and your boy can't take on the burden of restructuring this man's life and personality at this stage of his life. It is good to let him go emotionally as well as physically.

Hope you have a great time at the ball, and recuperate from all this emotional upheaval. Life doesn't have to be that difficult, really. Some people throw gasoline on their problems, not water. You seem to know the way out to good health and happiness now. It is possible. Good luck.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mao (556 days ago)

After the holidays, he sent me a letter saying that he didn't want to waste time fixing up his marriage just because his family, friends and wife want it. But he has moved back to his wife because he couldn't afford living on his own. He wife has been working in my school since Feb and that gave me unbelievabl pressure. I decided to give her his letter to me, together with my letter to them both. In my letter, I have asked them to work their own problems, leaving me alone, behaving more discreetly as she has been quite aggressive in the school, talking to a lot of people. I decided that's the only way to stop him lying, to stop her parading again. That gave me tremendous strength. I have been able to face her and the staff in the school.

(I am based in Hong Kong)